I’m a good person because he’s a bad one

Posted on by vandal and tagged , , , , . Bookmark the permalink.

There are two conversations to be had on the recent tosh topic. One is whether a rape joke is ok or not and the other is whether it is ok to heckle or not. Obviously one is making more noise than the other.

A rape joke is debatable though and it has the opportunity of making the comedian looking like an ass and the girl sympathetic. However it’s generally always wrong to heckle, so boring. The original blog of this issue marginalized that as such along with comedians in general. It opened focused on the girls, focused on their story, set everyone up and described tosh as amateur and awkward (though from what I understood his act is an intentionally awkward white guy telling offensive jokes) and easily dismissed. Everyone else is a side character from the main point of view. Tosh tried turning down the heckler originally, acknowledged the lack of context in the story, and finally pulled a “fine, you’re right, I’m sorry” move and here Louis CK shows why that was going to fail. 

Related posts:

  1. Daniel Tosh Rape Jokes
  2. Louis CK on being a father part 2

7 Responses to I’m a good person because he’s a bad one

  1. DataShade says:

    It was going to fail because it won’t get you laid? ;-)

    The first story I saw about it was just “woman says rape isn’t funny, Tosh says…” and, I dunno, I’ve kind of yawned through the whole thing. My job puts me in a position to see threats (or read reports of threats) on a regular basis and “wouldn’t it be funny if” doesn’t really rise to the level of the legal definition of a threat, and wouldn’t rise to the level of incitement without intent to cause rape or the knowledge that a rape would likely occur. (And, frankly, I have a hard time picturing a gay guy gang-raping a female heckler, altho’ I suppose that thought puts me on an express train to hell.)

    So basically, a guy made a bad joke in the form of an offensive rhetorical statement and the internet lined up to show how awesome they were for calling Tosh out. The outrage reminded me of the opening to Louis CK’s 2011 Beacon Theatre bit where he goes “If you have something to say to me, totally, this is what we do. We write it down, and then, you go outside into the lobby… then you go home and you kill yourself. Because that’s selfish, this is a performance, it’s got nothing to do with you.”

  2. sunshinefiasco says:

    You are making false comparisons all over the place.

    Vandal: The Louis CK bit is almost entirely irrelevant. The girl is talking during the show, which no one would say is acceptable. This girl’s problem is that she completely thinks it is acceptable for her to not only talk through a show, but to engage and distract the performers as a matter of course. She actually admits all of that while outside.

    While the girl in the Laugh Factory probably should have kept her mouth shut, it’s not exactly the same situation. Read the piece: she didn’t yell/stomp out at the mere mention of rape. It’s a specific objection she has to several specific comments that he made/a point of view that he advanced that she found offensive. While she minimizes the “wrongness” of heckling/disrupting in that specific situation, she completely acknowledges that it’s wrong, and that Tosh offended her to the point where she didn’t give a shit. Louis CK didn’t provoke that blonde chick into running her mouth.

    Also, what are you even talking about with the apologies? First, Louis didn’t apologize. She in no way believes that he is convinced by her point of view. As a comic, Louis won that interaction. He kept the room, the room knew she sucked, for hours, and hated her. The debate that they’re having– whether she’s a good person or not– is irrelevant.

    Tosh, from what I read, didn’t claim a lack of context, he claimed to have been misquoted about the gang-rape comment. That’s not what set the woman off– that was his parting shot on her way out the door. It’s also an apology that’s a product of a media blitz– not a one-on-one conversation. If you want to compare this to a comic, you’d do better comparing it to Tracy Morgan.

    It’s not a real threat, and she should have just left quietly. Still, I feel no sympathy for Tosh whatsoever. He spoke tactlessly about a sensitive topic, and somebody got upset about it enough to speak up in the middle of his show– that’s a gamble he’s been taking since he established his “style”. He signed up for that shit, and he’s collect(ing/ed) dividends everytime this exact situation doesn’t happen, so I can’t feel bad. He can minimize the liklihood of backfiring like this in a myriad of ways: talk about something else/be less aggressive/talk about it better.

    While there’s nothing wrong with putting a heckler in their place, putting her in her place with a gang rape joke in a room (mob) that’s on the comic’s side is insensitive and volatile at best (call her an idiot, a liberal, a person who can’t take a joke, or prove her wrong with an awesome, insightful joke that involves rape– that’s what a better comic would have done).

  3. pkieffer says:

    The key thing everyone seemed to miss here is that the girl was clearly naive to what happens at a stand-up show, and naive to the most basic elements of comedy. Her voicing her offense during the show was like someone running onstage during a professional wrestling match and screaming, “Stop, put down the folding chair, you’re going to kill him!”

    This is not to say that Tosh’s jokes were particularly good or sophisticated, but making a rape joke isn’t about finding rape funny; it’s about thinking it’s funny to make a statement that is clearly the opposite of the truth. He may as well have said, “You know what I love… small pox.” Again, not a great joke, but would we take anyone seriously who shouted out “Hey, small pox is terrible and it’s nothing to joke about!”

    As such, he should have recognized that ignorance on her part. If he had, I like to think he would have ignored her instead of making the awful gang-rape joke, which, like the first joke, was (regrettably) designed to be funny because it was so clearly the opposite of what he would really want to happen at that moment. Nonetheless, because she was so naive to how comedy works, it was seen and felt as an attack, for which he should have apologized.

    Frankly, they both made mistakes based on their ignorance to what was happening and both come out looking like idiots and jerks.

  4. Eipa says:

    I don’t think it’s fair to take out of responsibility. While she ignored any rules of courtesy or behaviour on comedy shows, tosh didn’t do anything but his job in the whole thing.
    Her motives may be honest but her acting is clearly bad. If you excuse naivety of adults you treat them like children which I believe is kind of disrespectful.

  5. Hilomh says:

    So Daniel Tosh, the comedian most famous for saying the most terrible things imaginable about people suffering horrible injuries on Youtube, is suddenly bad because he made a rape joke? He makes jokes about people dying all the time – is rape worse than death? The answer, of course, is irrelevant. As a comedian, his job is to say whatever he thinks will be funny. He can’t say anything “inappropriate.” You can only hear “inappropriate” things. Tosh being offensive isn’t about Tosh.

    That being said, there is a time and place for everything. It seems to me that the ideal time for a rape joke would be at a comedy club…it’s not like Obama made a rape joke, so what’s the big deal?

  6. What’s sad is the idea it gives of feminism as finger-waggers rather than people who expose wrongful shame, bias, and hidden cultural B.S.

    Bill Maher did a spiel about feminists / PC a few years ago and this plays right into the hands of the anti-PC police.